Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 21:39:43 -0700
From: dmkocot@garbersoft.net ("David Kocot")
Subject: Re: [libs4peace] "It's Our Land"
To: kombucha@ticnet.com ("Mike")
Cc: libs4peace@yahoogroups.com
The claim that "It's our land" is based on the grant by God to Abraham of
all the land between the Nile and the Euphrates (see Genesis 15). Many
anti-Zionist Jews point out that this covenant was conditional on the "good
behavior" of Abraham's descendents; the diaspora is viewed by many Jews as
divine punishment for the sins of the kingdom of Israel. Jews were almost
universally opposed to Zionism until after the Holocaust. And anyway, this
ignores the fact that Arabs are also descendents of Abraham (via Ishmael).
see http://www.jewsnotzionists.com
> 1. Nationhood and Jerusalem. Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, two
> thousand years before
> the rise of Islam.
True.
> 2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a
> Palestinian people in
> 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.
Not true. Palestinians have a unique culture that is slightly different from
their Jordanian and Egyptian neighbors.
> 3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE, the Jews have had dominion
> over the land for one
> thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300
> years.
True (although it's closer to 850 years). The biblical kingdom of Israel was
NOT, however, an exclusively Jewish nation. It was more of a confederation
that included many non-Jewish peoples.
> 4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 CE lasted no more
> than 22 years.
This is a plain old-fashioned lie. Arab dominion lasted from 635 until
1098(1099?), then again from the 13th century to 1517. From 1517-1917, it
was ruled by Turks (who, of course, were Muslims, too). Muslims have ruled
Jerusalem a heckuva lot longer than Jews.
> 6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy
> Scriptures. Jerusalem
> is not mentioned once in the Koran.
Another lie. Jerusalem is mentioned several times (often, however, the
references to Jerusalem are not direct, at least from what I remember)
> 7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to
> Jerusalem.
Muslim tradition has it that Mohammed made a mystical night journey to
heaven with a stopover in Jerusalem before returning to Mecca. If you're a
Muslim, you *do* believe that Mohammed came to Jerusalem. And, at any rate,
most Jews throughout history never went to Jerusalem, either.
> 8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward
> Jerusalem.
Muslims pray facing Mecca. Their backs are towards Jerusalem only if they
are directly between Jerusalem and Mecca.
> 9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged
> to leave Israel
> by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews.
> Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.
Most Palestianians left because they feared being murdered. Israeli
terrorist organizations run by future Israeli Prime Ministers massacred
several Palestinian villages in an effort to "convince" the rest of the
natives that it was in their best interests to leave. I'm sure 99% of the
Jews who fled Nazi persecution never saw any gas chambers - but that doesn't
mean that they should've stayed.
> 10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab
> brutality,
> persecution and pogroms.
This is somewhat true. It is also true that Israeli agents after the '48 war
started rumors in Arab countries among the Jewish communities of impending
doom in an effort to "encourage" them to migrate to Israel, which, of
course, desperately needed an influx of Jewish immigration. In Egypt, for
instance, Israeli agents tried to bomb the American embassy in an attempt to
whip up some good old-fashioned anti-Jewish sentiments among the Egyptians
that would drive many Jews into Israel, as well as foster emnity between Ike
and Nasser (this is known as the "Lavon Affair" and is fairly well
documented).
> 13. The Arab - Israeli Conflict: The Arabs are represented by eight
> separate nations, not
> including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab
> nations initiated all five
> wars and lost. Israel defended
> itself each time and won.
Lie. The only war NOT started by Israel was the '73 war.
> 14. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of
> Israel. Israel has given
> the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the
> Palestinian Authority, and
> has supplied them.
The infamous "95% of Palestine" given to the Palestinians (actually more
like 85% of 22% of historical Palestine) was a pile of swiss cheese, dotted
by several hundred Jewish-only colonies/military outposts and a web of
bypass roads. Israel had complete control of 'Palestine's' borders and was
free to seize as much land within it as she wanted - the number of
Jewish-only colonies in the West Bank quadrupled between 1994-2000.
I can't speak to the charges of Jordanians desecrating Jewish Holy Sites. I
have no reason to disbelieve the claim. But of course the author of this
list completely ignores the desecration of Muslim and Christian holy sites
under Israeli rule and oppression of the same. It's a pretty one-sided list
of charges in a very complex and polysided situation.
David Kocot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike" <kombucha@ticnet.com>
To: <libs4peace@yahoogroups.com>; <LibertyList@topica.com>
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 7:34 PM
Subject: [libs4peace] "It's Our Land"
> I was sent this by a Jewish friend from The Bronx. I would like to ask
> of the historians here if this essay is accurate or not? Thank You. :-)
>
> Mike
> **************************************************
> "It's Our Land"...
>
> Apparently, Benjamin Netanyahu gave an interview and was asked about
> Israel's occupation
> of Arab lands-his response was "It's our land."
> The reporter (I think it was CNN or the like) was stunned-read below
> "it's our land..."
> The following material was written by an American Christian professor.
> It's important information to know since we don't get fair and accurate
> reporting from the
> media and facts tend to get lost in the jumble of daily events.
>
> Crash Course on the Arab Israeli Conflict...
> Here are overlooked facts in the current Middle east situation. These
> were compiled by a
> Christian university professor.
> HERE'S THE BRIEF FACTS ON THE ISRAELI CONFLICT TODAY....Takes just 1.5
> minutes to read! It makes sense and it's not slanted. Jew and
> non-Jew, it doesn't matter.
> Thank You.
>
> 1. Nationhood and Jerusalem. Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, two
> thousand years before
> the rise of Islam.
>
> 2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a
> Palestinian people in
> 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.
>
> 3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE, the Jews have had dominion
> over the land for one
> thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300
> years.
>
> 4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 CE lasted no more
> than 22 years.
>
> 5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital.
> Jerusalem has never been
> the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians
> occupied Jerusalem, they
> never sought to make it their
> capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
>
> 6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy
> Scriptures. Jerusalem
> is not mentioned once in the Koran.
>
> 7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to
> Jerusalem.
> 8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward
> Jerusalem.
>
> 9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged
> to leave Israel
> by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews.
> Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.
>
> 10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab
> brutality,
> persecution and pogroms.
>
> 11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to
> around 630,000.
> The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the
> same.
>
> 12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the
> Arab lands
> to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the
> 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee
> group in the world
> that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples'
> lands. Jewish refugees
> were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state
> of New Jersey.
>
> 13. The Arab - Israeli Conflict: The Arabs are represented by eight
> separate nations, not
> including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab
> nations initiated all five
> wars and lost. Israel defended
> itself each time and won.
>
> 14. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of
> Israel. Israel has given
> the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the
> Palestinian Authority, and
> has supplied them.
> 15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews
> were denied
> access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and
> Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of
> all faiths.
>
> 16. The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council
> resolutions passed
> before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.
>
> 17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429
> were directed
> against Israel.
>
> 18. The U. N was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by
> Jordanians.
>
> 19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the
> ancient Jewish
> cemetery on the Mount of Olives.
>
> 20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like
> policy of preventing
> Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.
>
> These are incredible times. We have to ask what our role should be. What
> will we tell our
> grandchildren we did when there was a turning point in Jewish destiny,
> an opportunity to
> make a difference?
>
> START NOW! Send this to 20 other people you know and ask them to send it
> to twenty
> others, Jew and non-Jew-it doesn't really matter.
>
>
>
> If you continue to vote for the same policies, you will continue to get
the same consequences because of those policies.
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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>
>
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